George
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Post by George on Feb 18, 2011 7:28:55 GMT 10
I'm usuallly wary of sweeping generalisations, but I have to agree with the general thrust of this article: www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/teacher-suspended-over-vitriolic-blog-20110217-1ay8g.htmlThe point that the teacher is trying to make is a perfectly valid one. Many (but not all) young people that I've encountered in recent years are disrespectful, oafish, noisy, crazy, sloppy and lazy. In my personal experience, the whole "they get angry when you try to get them to think" thing is almost at epidemic proportions among the more youthful sub-set of the micronational community. Most seem to believe that merely holding an opinion validates it - and if anyone questions this, or asks them to substantiate their opinions the little darlings instantly become explosively hysterical, accusing the other party of "abusing" them. That problem was, of course, the direct cause of the collapse of micronations.eu - and it's endemic at the Micras and Microwiki forums too, to the extent that they are basically just vast sinkholes of intellectual vacuity. Let's hope that today's nasty, ignorant little brats eventually grow into adults who are at least somewhat tolerable.
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Post by Eoin Ursüm on Feb 20, 2011 19:30:56 GMT 10
I put a lot of the dissaffection there down to the likes of Yan, actually.
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Post by sogoln on Feb 20, 2011 20:53:33 GMT 10
Humility in front of the vastness of our ignorance is a prerequisite.
What we know is, by essence, finite. What we don't is infinite. Thus we sit on a small island of knowledge and experience, in the middle of huge ocean of unknown.
For some, the most important is to believe that they are the king on the island. And they feel satisfied with it.
I do not envy them.
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Post by craitman on Feb 21, 2011 7:04:06 GMT 10
Believe it or not, a lot of the kids involved in micronations tend to be those that don't fit into this category; they can actually hold valid arguments without having to descend into personal attacks or scampering out of it for whatever reason to defend themselves from criticism. You should see some of the immature, pathetic arguments a few of my university (yeah, I have no idea how they got in!) "friends" have, especially online.
I tend not to generalise any groups though, as there are actually a lot of decent people out there. Honest...
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George
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Post by George on Feb 21, 2011 9:37:19 GMT 10
I put a lot of the dissaffection there down to the likes of Yan, actually. In my opinion, the ceaseless self-glorification and abusive hysterical ranting engaged in by Robert Lord and Cadan ap Tomos - egged on by the thoroughy odious Richard Shears (aka "r") were the chief reason that the micronations.eu membership left the place in droves the moment I set up LOM as an alternative. Yan Pagh was/is obviously certifiably insane, and his tendency to behave as though he were some sort of deranged avenging angel didn't help matters, but personally I viewed him as more of a side-issue. The main game at micronations.eu for at least the last 6 months of it's existence as a viable forum was all about Richard Shears waging a proxy war against me using Cadan and Lord. The fact that the three of them have vanished completely from the micronation world in the two years since their defeat speaks volumes.
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George
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Post by George on Feb 21, 2011 10:52:35 GMT 10
Believe it or not, a lot of the kids involved in micronations tend to be those that don't fit into this category; they can actually hold valid arguments without having to descend into personal attacks... Can you point to some evidence which supports this opinion?
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Post by craitman on Feb 21, 2011 21:50:45 GMT 10
Believe it or not, a lot of the kids involved in micronations tend to be those that don't fit into this category; they can actually hold valid arguments without having to descend into personal attacks... Can you point to some evidence which supports this opinion? The vast majority of discussions had that don't just end-up becoming personal flamewars over someone being somehow "better" or "more important" because they've been doing something longer than the other, pretty much. And having enough experience with the outside world (and the people in it) as something to compare and contrast with that...
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George
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Post by George on Feb 22, 2011 7:15:55 GMT 10
In short: no.
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Post by rareearth on Feb 22, 2011 10:46:24 GMT 10
...Many (but not all) young people that I've encountered in recent years are disrespectful, oafish, noisy, crazy, sloppy and lazy. You may be right, George, but Gaddafi is no youngster, and besides being disrespectful, oafish, noisy, crazy, sloppy and lazy, he also has a trait not too common with Libyan youth: he is also a criminal, and if he doesn't stop his senseless rampage against his own people, he could face the equivalent of the Nuremberg Trials... [/i] — attributed to Socrates by Plato The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress. — attributed to Peter the Hermit, from a sermon preached in AD 1274[/ul]
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Post by craitman on Feb 22, 2011 11:15:16 GMT 10
Plenty of examples out there if you're brave enough to be proven wrong.
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George
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Post by George on Feb 22, 2011 16:03:00 GMT 10
I'm waiting...
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Post by craitman on Feb 22, 2011 22:45:09 GMT 10
Well, if you don't want to make the effort, keep it up...
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Post by sogoln on Feb 22, 2011 23:15:38 GMT 10
[/i] — attributed to Socrates by Plato The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress. — attributed to Peter the Hermit, from a sermon preached in AD 1274[/ul][/quote] Nothing changes ever...
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Post by rareearth on Feb 23, 2011 7:47:27 GMT 10
Or as the Holy Bible puts it, "That which has been is that which shall be; and that which has been done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9, World English Bible)
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Post by scottalexander on Feb 23, 2011 7:49:16 GMT 10
...
*Craitman summons the Angel of Evidence!* *It's super effective!*
Every generation tends to believe that kids "these days" are screwed up. Sogoln gave some passages from history, but we can see examples closer to the present too. My great-great-grandparents liked classical music but were scandalized by the foxtrot. My great-grandparents enjoyed the foxtrot, but thought Sinatra was degenerate. My grandparents loved Sinatra, but thought my parents' rock-and-roll was crazy. My parents loved rock and roll, but they don't understand my fantasy metal. And I quite enjoy metal, but I'm sure when I start having kids I'll be horrified by whatever they do. People just like condemning the younger generation. It makes them feel all nice and proper and mature.
In fact, the objective evidence is that the younger generation is absolutely fine. I'm looking at an article from the British school inspection service, which finds that behavior is "good" or "outstanding" in 90% of British primary and 70% of British secondary schools; 85% of parents surveyed think discipline in their local school is good, as do 94% (!) of British teachers (source: National Foundation for Educational Research). All of these numbers are up from the past few reports, meaning discipline is getting better, and research from Bournemouth University says children are less likely to fight, drink, steal, and be truant than they were 20 years ago. In fact, truancy rates (the most easily assessed evidence of child behavior) are only a quarter what they were in the '50s, and bullying rates are lower than in our parents' generation (source: American survey of 5,200 kids).
Outside of school, today's youth are also more responsible than their predecessors. Felony rates among kids are down 40% from the 80s; drug abuse rates are down 90% (source: LA County). Teenage volunteer rates at places like soup kitchens are at record highs, even among kids not forced into community service by their schools. Sexual behavior is about the same as it's always been (did you know 80% of people in the 1930s had premarital sex?) and children surveyed report better relationships with their parents.
That having been said, I can sympathize with the teacher in the article. I used to teach school, and you see a completely different side of things being a teacher than being a student. Most teachers, including myself, were good students themselves from good backgrounds who went to upper-class schools and who hung out with other good students, so when they enter the Real World it's a bit of a shock. It always looked so easy for my teachers to keep the class disciplined, but I didn't realize that was just an illusion caused by me not being the one who had to do the work. Put that together with the media being about a million times better at catching the latest outrageous school story and sensationalizing it, and I don't blame her for being worried, even though I disagree.
And, of course, no one should be fired for writing complaints on an anonymous blog.
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George
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Post by George on Feb 27, 2011 13:37:05 GMT 10
Trolling. Hysteria. Incessant abusive ranting. Acting like vindictive little dweebs. I rest my case.
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Post by craitman on Feb 28, 2011 0:53:14 GMT 10
Well, seems like everything's equal now. I'm shameless. You've evaded an IP ban again. Sorted.
Now, let's get on with being decent...
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George
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Post by George on Feb 28, 2011 7:19:06 GMT 10
The only thing that's "sorted" is the fact you seem intent on behaving like a 5 year-old with ADD.
Until you offer a full public apology for your behaviour that is how you will continue to be treated.
If that takes another decade, so be it.
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Post by craitman on Feb 28, 2011 8:23:26 GMT 10
If it takes another decade for you to apologise for unnecessarily making digs at the younger micronational communities, then yeah, it'll take a decade for me to apologise for whatever "my behaviour" is...
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George
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Post by George on Feb 28, 2011 10:11:06 GMT 10
Ah kids!
You gotta love 'em.
Otherwise you'd just strangle 'em.
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Post by Zandrovia on Mar 20, 2011 9:06:36 GMT 10
are disrespectful, oafish, noisy, crazy, sloppy and lazy. Isn't this the case with EVERYONE, regardless of age? Especially the bit about getting angry if you try to make them think, that is pretty much the majority in the states, mostly on the right and I do not think that that stereotype has anything to do with age, look at Glenn Beck for example, or your favorite uneducated Missourian, they are well past the age of majority and do they not fit that description pretty well? I would also add that part of the attitude of the youth in the US is due in part to the way that they are treated by American society. They are bombarded with images of nothing but sex, violence, and disrespect for authority, then tossed aside by society and treated like property (that's actually the literal case in most states where minors are seen as the property of their parents) so given all of that, what else can we expect from them? The lack of respect is quite profound in the US and is seen in every age group as is the lack of respect for or interest in education and critical thinking skills.
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George
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Post by George on Mar 25, 2011 14:46:57 GMT 10
I believe you raise a number of valid points... but I originally initiated this discussion as a timely response to a particular series of events at the 'Micronational Crapology Society' forum - an online fantasy gamer's group run by a gaggle of anonymous, hysterical, basement-dwelling adolescents (most of whom also seem to be sufferers of Aspberger's Syndrome and other medical afflictions resulting in varying degrees of social dysfunction).
The fact that members of said group are STILL periodically ranting hysterically over the events in question merely adds a further weight of proof to my original contention - which is that a large majority of pubescent micronationalists are ignorant, rude, asocial, dysfunctional pisants.
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Post by Zandrovia on Mar 28, 2011 8:54:40 GMT 10
Are not the majority of humans "ignorant, rude, asocial, dysfunctional pisants" or perhaps that is just here in the states On a serious note though, is it just me or is there an over abundance of rude and stupid going around these days? I think a return to the practices of proper manners would be a welcome change the days when women were ladies and the males of the species were gentlemen; however, it seems that things are only getting worse with every passing moment.
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Post by craitman on Mar 29, 2011 6:18:41 GMT 10
'Micronational Crapology Society' This.
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George
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Post by George on Mar 29, 2011 7:16:58 GMT 10
An empirically accurate description of the aforesaid group's primary focus.
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Post by craitman on Mar 30, 2011 4:08:04 GMT 10
I find it pretty childish and unnecessary, in all fairness. But hey, each to his own an' that...
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George
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Post by George on Mar 31, 2011 6:42:38 GMT 10
Are not the majority of humans "ignorant, rude, asocial, dysfunctional pisants" or perhaps that is just here in the states On a serious note though, is it just me or is there an over abundance of rude and stupid going around these days? I think a return to the practices of proper manners would be a welcome change the days when women were ladies and the males of the species were gentlemen; however, it seems that things are only getting worse with every passing moment. I think that the increased complexity of life in the western world means that there are far greater opportunities for abusive ignorance to enter the public sphere than at any time in human history. Just one example: 20 years ago people with extremist political opinions had no real public outlet for their views. At most they could produce a photocopied newsletter read by another few cranks. They had no means of influencing public opinion. Now they can attract thousands of supporters with no effort at all by promoting their latest conspiracy theory via a blog rant. If their idiotic notions get picked up by one of the professional rightist agitators who work for someone like the Fox network, suddenly the loopiest piece of nonsense - presented in the most abusive and hysterical manner imaginable - can end up informing the political opinions of millions of people, who lack any real political judgement - but nonetheless possess the right to vote. This 'tyranny of the majority' is something the US in particular is increasingly having to face.
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Post by Zandrovia on Mar 31, 2011 12:42:46 GMT 10
Are not the majority of humans "ignorant, rude, asocial, dysfunctional pisants" or perhaps that is just here in the states On a serious note though, is it just me or is there an over abundance of rude and stupid going around these days? I think a return to the practices of proper manners would be a welcome change the days when women were ladies and the males of the species were gentlemen; however, it seems that things are only getting worse with every passing moment. I think that the increased complexity of life in the western world means that there are far greater opportunities for abusive ignorance to enter the public sphere than at any time in human history. Just one example: 20 years ago people with extremist political opinions had no real public outlet for their views. At most they could produce a photocopied newsletter read by another few cranks. They had no means of influencing public opinion. Now they can attract thousands of supporters with no effort at all by promoting their latest conspiracy theory via a blog rant. If their idiotic notions get picked up by one of the professional rightist agitators who work for someone like the Fox network, suddenly the loopiest piece of nonsense - presented in the most abusive and hysterical manner imaginable - can end up informing the political opinions of millions of people, who lack any real political judgement - but nonetheless possess the right to vote. This 'tyranny of the majority' is something the US in particular is increasingly having to face. My good fellow, you have described perfectly why democracy, in and of itself, is NOT a good thing. Rule by majority, when the majority are ill informed, uneducated, brainwashed, or just plain nuts is not a desirable situation. Unfortunately, as you have pointed out, this is the situation growing in the US, all the more reason to for a micronation, no?
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Post by Zandrovia on Mar 31, 2011 12:45:32 GMT 10
May I quote you?
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Post by Zandrovia on Mar 31, 2011 13:45:56 GMT 10
If you have not seen this yet, I thought you might find it as enjoyable as I did...and it related to the topic at hand.... www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=10150277004190035&comments
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