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Post by Zandrovia on May 4, 2011 1:44:22 GMT 10
As it has been known for sometime, we encourage our citizens and ministers to adopt Zandrovian names as part of our cultural efforts to forge a national identity. Apparently, this is something that certain rather narrow minded individuals, who tend to be in the same vein of birthers, can not seem to understand. As I have no time, and even less patience, for such non-sense and in the interest of some degree of transparency I shall be known by the proper name of Lady Ardilla. Yes this is the name found on my birth certificate as a proper legal name, not my nick name or pen name or Zandrovian name or screen name, etc. etc. but a name with which I was born, so all of the nay sayers can find something else to quabble about. Our citizens will still be encouraged to adopt Zandrovian names as is our custom. Hopefully, this is will avoid any confusion in the future, I am still the same old loveable (or not, ) Queen as always, just a with a shiny new/old name (even if I am grumbling about it).
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Post by papapodjov on May 4, 2011 2:04:43 GMT 10
Lady Ardilla,
What is to anyone who isn't a Zandrovian what your cultural efforts are as regards names? Whether or not it is on your US Birth Certificate, or any Zandrovian documents?
You have the right to be known as whatever you see fit....! And anyone that argues otherwise is clearly an individual too dumb to make it through the muppet auditions as a back up for Animal.
CG
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Post by Zandrovia on May 4, 2011 2:28:57 GMT 10
Lady Ardilla, What is to anyone who isn't a Zandrovian what your cultural efforts are as regards names? Whether or not it is on your US Birth Certificate, or any Zandrovian documents? You have the right to be known as whatever you see fit....! And anyone that argues otherwise is clearly an individual too dumb to make it through the muppet auditions as a back up for Animal. CG I agree whole heartedly! Unfortunately, I currently reside in a country where the mass populace seems to fit that description quite well, keep in mind some of them do not even recognize their own president as an American. Where as in the UK people have the right to be known however they wish as long as their chosen name is not meant to defraud, in the US it is automatically assumed if you use anything other than what is on your birth certificate that you are either a foreign spy or a crook. The concept of privacy simply does not exist here either. I have even ran across people that do not understand the concept of a pen name as is often used by writers for centuries. I am sure my growing annoyance at the mind-set here is apparent.
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George
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Post by George on May 4, 2011 6:01:00 GMT 10
I'm very much in two minds about the use of pseudonyms.
While I understand that in some very rare instances (such as employment by the CIA or military), it may sometimes be justifiable, I personally believe that anything worth doing (in reality) is worth attaching my full legal name to - no ifs, buts or maybes. I have always done so - from the age of 14 onwards, which is when Atlantium was founded.
In my experience many micronationalists use false identities, online handles and pseudonyms to try to conceal their true identities for reasons that are a combination of fear-of-ridicule (at being identified with a micronation that is basically just a few pixels on a screen), and fear of being shown to be a 13 year-old with no assets living in their mother's basement - and not the Grand High Pooh-bah of the Cosmos that they pretend to be in their online fantasy existence.
Personally, I tend to be instantly and overwhelmingly dismissive of people who make any unsubstantiated assertion of personal magnificence while cowering behind an alias.
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tfoe
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Post by tfoe on May 4, 2011 6:59:59 GMT 10
Why are you so dismissive?
Only a handful of micronationalists deign to create a pseudonym, and they have every right to; not just for purposes of pride, put for privacy as well.
Dismissing those who decide to live via an alter ego is pointless and stupid, its like dismissing someone for choosing to wear Grey nail varnish in oppose to red, just ridiculous.
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Post by Zandrovia on May 4, 2011 7:03:48 GMT 10
I think the mindset in the US is so different that it often calls for discretion, you're not likely in Australia or the UK to have someone throwing bricks through your window or sending suspicious packages in the mail because they do not care for your opinion or your way of life (at least I don't think, lol), that happens in the US. I have never heard of anything like that happening related to micronations in specific,but to other things out of mainstream. As a political and environmental writer of no consequence, and I really mean no consequence whatsoever, I've received death threats a few times over global warming of all things, lol. The political environment here is becoming increasingly hostile (look at the recent shootings for example). I once wrote a piece on the goth and vampire sub-culture in response to some awareness being raised by the Sophie Lancaster tragedy a few years ago and I was amazed to learn that some of these people have not only been physically attacked but have lost their jobs and had their children taken from them because they were different from the main stream. Now they are saying that people who prefer to eat healthy and avoid fat and chemicals actually have a mental disorder, lol (I swear everyone in the US is going completely nuts!) Personally I think it is all rather childish but given such a climate I can understand the need to protect your privacy, and for those who are minors it is probably best to do so as much as possible. I do not think a minor should ever post their contact details and real name online, or anyone else for that matter, there are far too many crack pots out there these days. So I do not automatically discredit someone who uses an alias, I think it depends on their reasoning and how they go about it.
In the case of Zandrovia, we are very open about the fact that it has been a part of our cultural efforts to adopt chosen Zandrovian names ( it is even part of the sign up process for new citizens) so you can not exactly be trying to hide anything if you tell people you are doing it, which you think would be enough to satisfy people, but apparently not. I am annoyed by the situation but I am not willing to let such a trivial matter become a distraction and impede our mission so if what was written on some silly little piece of paper thirty-some years ago is that important to people, so be it, lol. I find this about as ridiculous as the whole birther thing.
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Post by Zandrovia on May 4, 2011 7:09:01 GMT 10
Why are you so dismissive? Only a handful of micronationalists deign to create a pseudonym, and they have every right to; not just for purposes of pride, put for privacy as well. Dismissing those who decide to live via an alter ego is pointless and stupid, its like dismissing someone for choosing to wear Grey nail varnish in oppose to red, just ridiculous. I tend to agree that it is a person's right, whether in a micronation or not, to be known by whatever they wish. I think the UK has a much more sensible approach to that. People in the US are obsessed with invading your privacy, just look at facebook. It is not exactly the wisest thing in the world to put your entire life online for every nut case in the world to find, especially if you happen to live in a nation full of nut jobs Choosing your own name has often been a part of the rite of passage for various cultures and it is still used the Jewish tradition, this seems perfectly logical to me.
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Dagostinia
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Monarchy of Dagostinia
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Post by Dagostinia on May 4, 2011 8:09:36 GMT 10
Personally I use a handle (and undisclosed location) for the moment because my Office of Oversight is a bit paranoid of being targeted. Regarding what, I'm not sure. Frankly I don't care either way but as we share the same bed I figure peace should reign in the micronation above all else. We're both in our 30's with two small children. I would be happy to disclose our city at least but Pacific Northwest is about as specific as I am allowed to get. Another minor issue is all the irons I have in the virtual fire. A day job, three side businesses, some hobbies, micronationalism... I prefer to keep all of those separate. But if you're bright you could probably trove a little and find more details. I swear on my mother's grave (she's still alive) that I own real property and have a population of more than myself! And I'm not 13! Monarch of Dagostinia, Pac NW, US
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Post by Lykos Packleader on May 4, 2011 9:26:38 GMT 10
Heyla,
The taking of a Jarl name in Lykosha is mostly for the purpose of making note of the fact that the Packleader stands for the entire nation, not just him or her self.
The words Ulfsdottir and Ulfsen translates into “daughter” and “son” of the wolf. That translates, more or less entirely, into Packleader.
As for any other names, etc. that is the perogative of the Lykoshan him or her self --- and relates directly with the constructed language we’ve adopted.
I take note that, mostly, micronationalists don’t want to be met, spoken to orvr the phone, and won’t admit to being real. I, on the other hand, am more than willing to being met in person, and that will continue to be the case. Mind you, you’ll see more of me than I will of you (being 75% blind), but that can’t be helped. That’s also why I have a toll-free phone number good over the entire North American continent (can’t be helped that it doesn’t work outside that continent, but that’s the breaks).
As for pseudonyms,etc. I would think that it’s okay, so long as the “government” knows the truth. I guess that’s my opinion.
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George
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Post by George on May 4, 2011 10:17:57 GMT 10
Why are you so dismissive? Only a handful of micronationalists deign to create a pseudonym, and they have every right to; not just for purposes of pride, put for privacy as well. Dismissing those who decide to live via an alter ego is pointless and stupid, its like dismissing someone for choosing to wear Grey nail varnish in oppose to red, just ridiculous. I'm dismissive of anonymous online personalities because nothing they say can be verified in reality, and because the overwhelming weight of evidence from my 30+ years studying micronations is that people who lie about their identies almost always also lie about pretty much everything else too. Of course, people certainly do have the right to disguise their identity for privacy purposes - however they cannot then expect to be taken seriously in any public forum. You cannot run down a public street dressed in a chicken suit and playing the marimba and then demand that people avert their gaze; likewise, you cannot stridently assert that you wish to be taken seriously by the word at large, and then refuse to let anyone independently verify your statements by stubbornly refusing to reveal your identity. Nobody in this (real) world is ever going to take seriously anything an anonymous individual has to say about anything. Try getting yourself mentioned in the media using something other than your real name and see how far you get. If you think otherwise you are seriously deluded.
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Post by Zandrovia on May 4, 2011 11:01:47 GMT 10
Why are you so dismissive? Only a handful of micronationalists deign to create a pseudonym, and they have every right to; not just for purposes of pride, put for privacy as well. Dismissing those who decide to live via an alter ego is pointless and stupid, its like dismissing someone for choosing to wear Grey nail varnish in oppose to red, just ridiculous. I'm dismissive of anonymous online personalities because nothing they say can be verified in reality, and because the overwhelming weight of evidence from my 30+ years studying micronations is that people who lie about their identies almost always also lie about pretty much everything else too. Of course, people certainly do have the right to disguise their identity for privacy purposes - however they cannot then expect to be taken seriously in any public forum. You cannot run down a public street dressed in a chicken suit and playing the marimba and then demand that people avert their gaze; likewise, you cannot stridently assert that you wish to be taken seriously by the word at large, and then refuse to let anyone independently verify your statements by stubbornly refusing to reveal your identity. Nobody in this (real) world is ever going to take seriously anything an anonymous individual has to say about anything. Try getting yourself mentioned in the media using something other than your real name and see how far you get. If you think otherwise you are seriously deluded. It didn't seem to hurt Prince or Marilyn Monroe any
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George
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Post by George on May 4, 2011 11:36:04 GMT 10
Marilyn Monroe was seen on the big screen for many years by millions of people around the world.
Details of her life (including her real name, marital status and place of residence). were common knowledge. Much of it could be easily be verified by researching reliable third party documentary sources.
By contrast, absolutely nothing is verifiable about most "secret" micronationalists. Not their date/place of birth, sex, name, profession, appearance - nor indeed any other salient fact that might help to establish their credibility and trustworthiness.
There's nothing wrong with that - unless and until those micronationalists want people in the real world to take serious notice of them, or seriously commit time and money to their micronational project.
As with all things in life, you can't have your cake and eat it too :-)
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Post by Zandrovia on May 4, 2011 14:49:45 GMT 10
While I can agree with your point to some extent, isn't putting all of the information out there just asking for problems ranging from identity theft to crazy stalker fan boys? The first editor I ever had drove one thing home to her writing staff...NEVER EVER EVER EVER USE YOUR REAL NAME WHEN WRITING ONLINE. And most experts agree that you should never share any of the information you're talking about either, here is one example: moneywatch.bnet.com/saving-money/blog/devil-details/6-things-you-should-never-reveal-on-facebook/2360/I think you have to balance transparency with common sense and protecting your privacy, or maybe things are just that different here in the states than they are there, or maybe living under the Bush era just has us all paranoid here But keep in mind that in the US people have been fired for joining the “wrong” facebook group and identity theft has been given a huge hand up from social networking. Sharing information, meeting, phone conversations, etc. within the circle is one thing, but full disclosure in public I think is ill advised. (I think it is worth noting that the most successful communes that survived from the 60's here are the ones that no one knows about. Regardless of what you try to do in the states, someone will make it their mission in life to destroy it.)
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Post by Zandrovia on May 4, 2011 15:15:45 GMT 10
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George
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Post by George on May 4, 2011 19:45:05 GMT 10
People have to make their own decisions about how much personal information they are comfortable revealing to the world; I can only speak from my own personal experience:
My full legal name, address and personal mobile phone number have been widely available online through various websites, since the 1990s.
My personal details have been seen by literally hundreds of thousands of people in that time.
In all that time do you know how many prank calls I've received?
ONE (earlier this year, which I terminated after quickly establishing the identity of the caller - a certain Dennis Corbett of Screwloose, Missouri).
Do you know how many times I've fallen victim to finance fraud or identity theft?
NEVER.
Do you know how many media calls I've fielded as a consequence of being easily contactable?
DOZENS - most of which have resulted in some sort of positive coverage.
I think that pretty much says it all.
A healthy level of caution in these matters is always a good idea - but rampant paranoia is, in my estimation, decidedly self-defeating.
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Post by sogoln on May 4, 2011 23:49:04 GMT 10
I use pseudonyms both in my professional and micronational lives.
As a professional journalist, I use a pseudonym because my real name is quite complex and I'm tired of seeing it mispelled or hearing it twisted by people who cannot read it properly.
However, it is easy for people searching after me to find my real name. I've never actually hid it.
In my micronational life, I use my Formori name. Unlike most of today's cultures, we Formoris decide of our own name after the age of 7 and we can change it when it does no longer suit us. Choosing a Formori name is actually one of the first things a new Formori has to do when entering the community.
Since most of the people I work with either lack any sense of humor and/or could not understand anything as marginal as micronationalism, I save them from worrying by not connecting my various identity together.
Another reason for not giving out my actual name and address to anyone who doesn't ask me for it, comes from my previous experience with amateur astronomy clubs, where I had to deal with UFOmaniacs who didn't see what was the problem when trying to phone me or even ringing at my door at 4 in the morning.
The world s full of angry nutty people.
And with the Formori, I had the unpleasant experience of meeting a new, unexpected breed: integrist neo-druids, who cursed us for "our attempt to wake up the Formori demons" !
Sigh...
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Post by Zandrovia on May 5, 2011 0:53:39 GMT 10
People have to make their own decisions about how much personal information they are comfortable revealing to the world; I can only speak from my own personal experience: My full legal name, address and personal mobile phone number have been widely available online through various websites, since the 1990s. My personal details have been seen by literally hundreds of thousands of people in that time. In all that time do you know how many prank calls I've received? ONE (earlier this year, which I terminated after quickly establishing the identity of the caller - a certain Dennis Corbett of Screwloose, Missouri). Do you know how many times I've fallen victim to finance fraud or identity theft? NEVER. Do you know how many media calls I've fielded as a consequence of being easily contactable? DOZENS - most of which have resulted in some sort of positive coverage. I think that pretty much says it all. A healthy level of caution in these matters is always a good idea - but rampant paranoia is, in my estimation, decidedly self-defeating. Ah, George, clearly you live in a totally different world. You see, as much as you dislike the Corbitt, you fail to understand that is not just one lone idiot, those of us in the US live a nation full of people just like him. They're on American television, in American schools, even in our government. It's not paranoia it is the state of this nation.....perhaps the following videos will give you some better insight to just what we are dealing with: Are you starting to see what we are dealing with?
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Post by Zandrovia on May 5, 2011 1:26:08 GMT 10
I use pseudonyms both in my professional and micronational lives. As a professional journalist, I use a pseudonym because my real name is quite complex and I'm tired of seeing it mispelled or hearing it twisted by people who cannot read it properly. However, it is easy for people searching after me to find my real name. I've never actually hid it. In my micronational life, I use my Formori name. Unlike most of today's cultures, we Formoris decide of our own name after the age of 7 and we can change it when it does no longer suit us. Choosing a Formori name is actually one of the first things a new Formori has to do when entering the community. Since most of the people I work with either lack any sense of humor and/or could not understand anything as marginal as micronationalism, I save them from worrying by not connecting my various identity together. Another reason for not giving out my actual name and address to anyone who doesn't ask me for it, comes from my previous experience with amateur astronomy clubs, where I had to deal with UFOmaniacs who didn't see what was the problem when trying to phone me or even ringing at my door at 4 in the morning. The world s full of angry nutty people. And with the Formori, I had the unpleasant experience of meeting a new, unexpected breed: integrist neo-druids, who cursed us for "our attempt to wake up the Formori demons" ! Sigh... Choosing your own name is also part of our culture, either when you become a Zandrovian citizen or upon becoming a Bar/Bat Mitzvah. The idea of being stuck with your birth name for the rest of your life is actually fairly new in the historical sense, and why people are so obsessed with this idea today I honestly do not understand. If you look at Biblical times or tribal cultures as just two examples, changing your name when you came of age or began a new part of your life was common place and no one thought it strange or illegal. Modern humans are such odd creatures.
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George
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Post by George on May 5, 2011 6:50:54 GMT 10
The United States has no monopoly on raving nutters; half the population of Australia voted for one - whose only "policy" was a meaningless 9-word mantra based on xenophobia and fiscal "truthiness" at our last federal election.
We also host a plethora of gun nuts, holocaust deniers, climate-change deniers, anti-tax kooks, libertarian fruitcakes, racists, xenophobes and shock jocks enough to satisfy any US Teabagger's wildest dreams.
If you live your life in fear of them, then they've already won.
If you stand and face them, they cower before you like the dogs they are.
That's my experience, in any case.
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Post by Zandrovia on May 5, 2011 6:59:23 GMT 10
The United States has no monopoly on raving nutters; half the population of Australia voted for one - whose only "policy" was a meaningless 9-word mantra based on xenophobia and fiscal "truthiness" at our last federal election. We also host a plethora of gun nuts, holocaust deniers, climate-change deniers, anti-tax kooks, libertarian fruitcakes, racists, xenophobes and shock jocks enough to satisfy any US Teabagger's wildest dreams. If you live your life in fear of them, then they've already won. If you stand and face them, they cower before you like the dogs they are. That's my experience, in any case. Goodness knows I tend to take on quite a bit of these "nutters" myself, but here, they do not face you directly, they do things in a much more dishonorable way, like simply firing you, posting signs that they will refuse to give medical care to those of the "wrong" political persuasion, or other such behavior. I do not think people should live in fear of them; however, they should be wise to guard themselves and their families in as much as possible. Operating on a need to know basis seems to be the norm in micronationalism from what I have seen, and really, why does anyone outside of one's perspective nation or dimplomatic circles need to know in the first place? I suppose it depends on your own particular culture and goals.
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Dagostinia
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Monarchy of Dagostinia
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Post by Dagostinia on May 5, 2011 8:04:24 GMT 10
I suppose even one's location within the Unites States seems to matter as well. If the South is still that prejudiced, it doesn't represent the rest of the nation. Here in Oregon things are pretty laid back. If I told someone I had my own micronation they'd raise an eyebrow, maybe ask some questions, maybe laugh, and then forget the whole thing. But as the internet in general is not limited to just one state, nor are my side businesses, I prefer the one handle per entity.
I agree with HNM Lady Ardilla, why would one outside the circle really need to know? Dagostinia is not promoting citizenship. It's strictly a sovereign household (and backyard)! Most of the info on the website is informational and all that is needed for anyone to understand our basic operations. We've received mutual recognition from a couple of other micronations but don't actively seek it. We're here doing our thing. Feel free to learn from it. If you're just here to taunt me then get off my lawn before the First Alarm Division busts through the royal screen door and escorts you away. </tongue in cheek>
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Post by Zandrovia on May 5, 2011 8:12:22 GMT 10
Indeed, I think this sort of attitude and behavior is much worse in the south and midwest, and apparently Arizona which has evidently went completely insane.
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Post by sogoln on May 5, 2011 17:44:10 GMT 10
No truce with morons, I agree.
However, I lack spare time to deal with them, I am really busy in my mundane life and I have three kids to feed, so I tend to favour some efficiency by not attracting nutters to stand in my way.
I prefer to fight them when and where I decide to.
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Post by Zandrovia on May 7, 2011 2:07:51 GMT 10
No truce with morons, I agree. However, I lack spare time to deal with them, I am really busy in my mundane life and I have three kids to feed, so I tend to favour some efficiency by not attracting nutters to stand in my way. I prefer to fight them when and where I decide to. Precisely, and one thing this modern age has done is made attracting "nutters" almost a given when you are doing anything even slightly out of the ordinary. But then again, I do believe the "nutters" are steadily becoming the majority. What ever happened to the days of polite society and the civility of court?
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