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Post by davidv on Sept 10, 2011 1:40:31 GMT 10
As you would be aware, two "schisms" occurred in Talossa. First was in 2004 when the Republic of Talossa was formed as a breakaway from the Kingdom of Talossa. Secondly, in 2005, Robert Ben Madison and his supporters quit Talossa after renewed disputes. The Kingdom elected a new King two years later.
In 2008, it emerged that Madison and his loyalists had reformed their own version of Talossa, claiming they were the sole legitimate Talossan state. This even led to a whole host of legal possibilities, as well as a social networking controversy.
This year, however, has come an event unnoticed by those still active in either Talossan entity. Madison and his group have essentially given up on their version of Talossa, it appears for good.
While public record cannot contradict the events that took place above (I mean the 2003-05 developments that left Talossa in two and its founder initially abandoning it), can it be taken of a vindication that interest in micronationalism in the past decade has declined to the point that even those who had been its main drivers (however you may quantify) have seemingly lost faith in it?
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Dagostinia
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Post by Dagostinia on Sept 10, 2011 2:26:43 GMT 10
I would say given the number of new micronations that are formed daily, interest has not waned. (cf. micronations.wikia.com). However, the number of those formed that are of capability to carry on business as a micronation is a mere fraction. Hopefully some of the pre-pubescent single web page "parent's garden" micronations will evolve and become something of repute someday.
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George
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Post by George on Sept 10, 2011 5:58:21 GMT 10
What Dagostinia said.
The notion that micronationalism has "declined" in the past decade is empirically wrong.
There are vastly more of them now than at any other point in history.
It's just that they no longer all hang out in a single online forum.
The reasonably rational adults hang out here.
The ones who want to play-act at being the UN hang out at the Organisation of Active Micronations.
The ones who declare war on each other every 5 seconds and claim to rule Antarctica hang out at Microwiki.
The ones who think that you're insane unless your micronation exists on a fictional planet hang out at the Hub.
The crazies hang out at the Crackpot Forum.
Richard Shears hangs out at micronations.eu
The draconic paedophiles hang out at Malatora.
Yan, Vikesland and Westarctica/Calsahara hang out nowhere.
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Post by Lykos Packleader on Sept 10, 2011 8:45:44 GMT 10
George,
O.K. --- what does that make me? I visit OAM (but everytime I try to join, they give me a "you can't participate here" account), visit micro.eu, mostly to see news and check up on old posts, participate at OMF (to Tallini's chagrinand my delight), and then come here to post, brag, and have intelligent discourse......
I haven't been to any of the others, especially if they're non-friendly to secessionists.
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George
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Post by George on Sept 10, 2011 12:52:46 GMT 10
You seem to post the majority of your comments here, so we're claiming you for the rational adult clan :-)
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Chas Jago
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Post by Chas Jago on Sept 11, 2011 12:21:00 GMT 10
You seem to post the majority of your comments here, so we're claiming you for the rational adult clan :-) lol Was waiting for that comment. I personally think that Micronationalism has declined, Not really in number but more in quality. But again that comes down to who's definition of a Micronation you use. Personally I have never been one to sit in one corner of Micronationalism, I have toes in many puddles and prefer to keep it that way.
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George
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Post by George on Sept 11, 2011 21:28:51 GMT 10
Micronationalism is a very diverse phenomenon.
It's not just about the handful that crop up on discussion forums, and it's not just "online fantasists vs loopy secessionists". A very notable percentage of micronations are actually stand-alone art projects, and an equally notable group represent the sort of community/local government protest that we've seen most recently with Filettino.
I've noticed that on this subject many people tend to assume that their own limited personal experience is somehow representative of wider trends when in fact it's usually just a matter of their making the evidence fit the theory by not actually seeking any evidentiary basis for their belief. The Crackpot brigade are prime examples of this. Most of them know very little about anything do do with micronations as a broader historic phenomenon - but they nonetheless presume to make pompous declarations of personal superiority on the basis of... well... nothing at all really.
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Chas Jago
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Post by Chas Jago on Sept 12, 2011 5:41:50 GMT 10
That is true, I have spent more than 10 years researching Micronations, and found that my list here, contains more than 271 Micronations based in more than 68 Countries, but is no where near a complete list. The paper this list is written on it rather old now, and I have never got around to transposing it into MS word or similar. Most of those nations have changed from when I first wrote them down, some have disappeared, others are still thriving.
I have found that there are many non-english nations who have had no contact with English speaking nations and in most cases have no knowledge of the english speaking Micronations, this could also be viceversa, I have found several US based nations who have no interest in non-english speaking nations.
"but they nonetheless presume to make pompous declarations of personal superiority on the basis of... well... nothing at all really."
We are all guilty of that in some form hehe
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George
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Post by George on Sept 12, 2011 9:59:43 GMT 10
Speak for yourself!
I, however, am practically perfect in every way.
...and anyone who disagrees is an evil kangaroo-dingo-goldfish who is not even a real micronation, because a micronation is what I say it is and nothing else, because my name is Cesidiot Tallini, and I worship myself as the god of my very own church, paid $50 for a degree mill doctorate, own a set of incomprehensible, self-referential websites that show all the world that I am truly a magnificent New Age purple child-messiah from the planet Venus who can cure cancer with a glass of herbal tea and half an orange, am the king of the Cabbage Patch and the supreme god-emperor of some random co-ordinates in the middle of the Adriatic Sea.
Oh ,and I really hate George Cruickshank because he acts like he's soooooooo special :-P
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Chas Jago
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Post by Chas Jago on Sept 12, 2011 10:28:28 GMT 10
haha Nice
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Post by davidv on Sept 14, 2011 13:25:11 GMT 10
In the age of social media one would assume it's harder for things to die out simply because it's easier to find out things and to keep in touch. Surely micronations, at least those with a community foundation, are aware of this too. Both Talossa and Atlantium relied on a real life circle of friends in the first decade of their respective existences, but also had to deal with the ramifications of dispersion and other factors.
When the whole "phenomena" came about in the latter half of the 90s, the Internet was a "brave new world". By the early 2000s it was a fixture in our lives, but the social media revolution hadn't come around yet. Now we have blogs, social networking and other forms of media which is revolutionising the way we do some things in our personal and professional lives. In some ways, Talossa was ahead of the curve- online bullying may be issue du jour, but we saw that in Talossa well before it did.
One conclusion I can come to is that there much have been a realisation by Madison and his close allies that the way they tried to recreate Talossa ("let's have it the way it used to be") was never going to work in this day and age. Or is this the inevitable result of the damaging schisms that occurred earlier in the decade?
It really is a pity in many ways. I've never doubted that the intelligence, creativity and charisma of Robert Ben Madison allied to stubbornness was able to sustain Talossa for longer than something like normally would be. Whether it's personality flaws, or simply the ugly side of online anonymity, it all came down to this.
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George
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Post by George on Sept 14, 2011 13:47:21 GMT 10
I think that the problem with Madison's Talossa is that it outlived its usefulness.
It's only possible to maintain a childhood project for so long - and then one is faced with a choice between letting it die a natural death or reinventing it in line with the realities of one's adult existence.
I'd suggest that Atlantium suceeded in negotiating that transition, where Madison's Talossa did not.
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Chas Jago
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Post by Chas Jago on Sept 14, 2011 13:50:21 GMT 10
Having never been involved in Micronations as a child I can't really comment. I find that most Micronations outlive their citizens interests. Hence why most never pass much further than a website and the mind of the person behind it.
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Post by Lykos Packleader on Sept 15, 2011 7:19:48 GMT 10
George, Actually, it’s very interesting that you should use the word “clan,” since Lykosha instituted the Clan Establishment Act of 2008. I find it ironic …. And I like it. www.packwolf.net/clanact2008.htmlEven if you didn’t mean it, I find it fascinating…..
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