George
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Post by George on Apr 20, 2011 19:04:35 GMT 10
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Post by sogoln on Apr 21, 2011 1:15:49 GMT 10
Systran translates it as Russian:
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Apr 21, 2011 16:32:09 GMT 10
So, to summarise, there are a lot of micronations in Australia because we're all affected by sunstroke...
:-)
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Post by sogoln on Apr 21, 2011 16:41:16 GMT 10
The fact that there is none in Russia proved that alcohol is not the primary factor.
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 21, 2011 23:30:10 GMT 10
That makes me wonder, which countries are the friendliest or most accepting of micronations, both from a legal stand point (where there are not strict guidelines preventing such) or socially. In the states you are considered a traitor and a nut job because they can not even imagine why anyone would not want to be a part of their “perfect” deity of a nation. And of course, the very idea of a monarchy of any sort sends them into a programmed, uncontrollable meltdown.
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Apr 22, 2011 3:18:32 GMT 10
Maybe that's a function of the part of the US in which you live.
It doesn't seem to be a problem for Molossia, over in Nevada.
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 22, 2011 5:46:33 GMT 10
I think it is the general consensus of the populace, and to be quite honest, most of them have never heard of Molossia and would not have the first clue what a micronation was, the rest think it is a "game", illegal, or nuts or some combination there of. Of course, you are right to an extent the mentality varies some what from one region to the next; however, the general culture is not one that is very accepting of micronations, or anyting "unamerican".
Past Vegas, there really isn't anyone in Nevada to notice what is going on, lol. But move towards Arizona and they are all loosing their minds quite frankly. The birthers and tea party loons have taken over the state.
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Post by rareearth on Apr 22, 2011 9:07:23 GMT 10
That makes me wonder, which countries are the friendliest or most accepting of micronations, both from a legal stand point (where there are not strict guidelines preventing such) or socially. In the states you are considered a traitor and a nut job because they can not even imagine why anyone would not want to be a part of their “perfect” deity of a nation. And of course, the very idea of a monarchy of any sort sends them into a programmed, uncontrollable meltdown. (Continental) Europeans seem incredibly open about sex matters compared with (Puritan) Americans, but I'm afraid Americans are ahead of them in other ways. Cesidian law, which is micronational law par excellence, is alive and well in several parts of the US: New York State, South Carolina, and Iowa. Cesidian law is alive and well in Belize. But Cesidian law is also alive and well in Siberia, I repeat, Siberia, and specifically in Irkutsk Oblast: ctjournal.wordpress.com/2011/02/11/cesidian-law-reaches-siberia/Several Russian-language micronations are at least aware of Cesidian law, such as the Mnoer Empire and Baltic Principality. However, besides the micronation of Promolands, and perhaps the Free Republic of Alcatraz and a few other Italian-language micronations, Cesidian law has not entered the European Union in any significant way. So you can say that Cesidian law, in Official World terms, is mainly an American, Italian, and Russian phenomenon.
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 23, 2011 6:50:04 GMT 10
How you can say that the current modern culture in the US is anything resembling "puritan" is beyond me. They are all obsessed with sex, there are no codes of descency what so ever, and it is easily America's only real past time, to spite it being a very deadly one. If only they were more "puritan" about it would be the only good thing about the "culture".
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Post by rareearth on Apr 23, 2011 8:37:52 GMT 10
How you can say that the current modern culture in the US is anything resembling "puritan" is beyond me. They are all obsessed with sex, there are no codes of descency what so ever, and it is easily America's only real past time, to spite it being a very deadly one. If only they were more "puritan" about it would be the only good thing about the "culture". I meant 'Puritan' in comparison to Europeans. If you've never lived/resided in Western Europe for a year or more, you wouldn't know the difference. In the US, for example, pornography cannot be seen even on cable TV unless you order the separate channels (extra expense). In Europe porn is out in the open. In the US in many places, when you buy anything as pornographic as Playboy, they put the magazine in a brown discreet envelope, whether you request it or not. In Europe these things never happen even with extreme XXX-rated materials. There are also religious differences. Most Western Europeans are secular-minded, agnostic, or atheistic. Most Americans, on the other hand, are religious in the extreme — that doesn't mean they follow the Commandments, or they are authentically Christian, but simply they appear to be more outwardly religious. In the NY metro area, for example, you have a choice of Catholic channels like Telecare and EWTN, and the Trinity Broadcasting Network and Daystar as Christian non-premium channels, and the Jewish Channel is available as a premium channel. I also receive the Italian RAI channel as a premium channel (costs extra), but quite honestly I rarely see anything religious there even on Good Friday, and this is the country which contains Vatican City, and which is apparently overwhelmingly Catholic. So I can make no absolute value judgements, only ones in relation to someone/something else. The International Space Station: a metaphor for Cesidian law in the world5wc.lefora.com/2011/04/22/the-iss-a-metaphor-for-cesidian-law-in-the-world/0/
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 25, 2011 23:19:54 GMT 10
I suppose you have a few points, although why such is even legal in the first place is something that I will never comprehend, especially given the enormous amount of harm that it causes. Ireland use to have a much better reign on keeping out things that were indecent and offensive. For us, chastity and purity are inseparable from honor.
As far as other issues, I think we are clearly seeing the US fall behind in nearly every area, certainly in education, the approach to medical “care”, reigning in monsanto, and sustainability. The US's steady march towards civil war is not exactly a plus for them either. They, as a society, tend to be very close minded when it comes to innovation or alternative ways of living and designing communities that are not based on the same 300 year old model that has failed so many times.
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Post by rareearth on Apr 26, 2011 6:01:46 GMT 10
I suppose you have a few points, although why such is even legal in the first place is something that I will never comprehend, especially given the enormous amount of harm that it causes. Ireland use to have a much better reign on keeping out things that were indecent and offensive. For us, chastity and purity are inseparable from honor. In Japan the Burakumin are considered filthy/dirty by the majority, not because they have more illicit sex than everyone else, or because they are of a different race/ethnicity than the average Japanese, but because they were involved — not as individuals necessarily, but as a group in general — in professions that were considered foul by Shinto, and later Buddhist standards. Because of societal pressures, the Burakumin were often employed as butchers, leather workers, grave-diggers, tanners, executioners and, at least in some cases, entertainers. Anyone who engaged in activities such as these, or people with special mystical powers, or linked to magicians or shamans, was by definition impure and to be avoided. The Puritans had similar attitudes towards sex outside of marriage, and other cultures saw menstruating women as impure, to be avoided. While public decency/sobriety doesn't certainly hurt, as well as good manners at the table or within polite society in general, a lot of these purity rules remind me more of unwarranted social engineering, discrimination, and the Indian caste system, rather than anything genuinely pure, beautiful, or particularly redeeming. Now governments tell us that expensive and pseudo-scientific physicians practicing polluting, artificial, and non-holistic forms of health care are desirable, not affordable and naturopathic practitioners practicing biological, natural, and holistic forms of health care. The first kind of professional is given a government licence, and a quasi-monopoly over health care. The second is not given even the right to practice under common market-driven needs/rules, which generally allow any beneficial service the public is willing to pay for which is not destructive to life, liberty, and property, services which generally include even the legal provision of unsecured debt at annual interest rates of 30% and higher — somehow, even the latter, not just unproven surgical techniques, is not destructive to life, liberty, or even property... As far as other issues, I think we are clearly seeing the US fall behind in nearly every area, certainly in education, the approach to medical “care”, reigning in monsanto, and sustainability. The US's steady march towards civil war is not exactly a plus for them either. They, as a society, tend to be very close minded when it comes to innovation or alternative ways of living and designing communities that are not based on the same 300 year old model that has failed so many times. They remind me so much of those self-righteous Christians who claim the Bible is the (only) word of God, but somehow they can't explain why God was unable to give the value of Pi beyond a single digit, while a perfect God, and/or a perfect secretary of God, would have been able to give the value of Pi to at least two digits very easily in the biblical narrative, if God — and/or a few good prophets — was the actual author of the entire Bible, and not largely a bunch of demonically-influenced sycophants.
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Dagostinia
Full Member
Monarchy of Dagostinia
Posts: 114
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Post by Dagostinia on Apr 27, 2011 1:22:15 GMT 10
They remind me so much of those self-righteous Christians who claim the Bible is the (only) word of God, but somehow they can't explain why God was unable to give the value of Pi beyond a single digit, while a perfect God, and/or a perfect secretary of God, would have been able to give the value of Pi to at least two digits very easily in the biblical narrative, if God — and/or a few good prophets — was the actual author of the entire Bible, and not largely a bunch of demonically-influenced sycophants. You may be interested in reading some commentary by Abarim Publications. www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/index.html. Then again he might just come off as a demonically-influenced sycophant since he doesn't agree with you. But he definitely wrinkled my brain a bit. Monarch of Dagostinia
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Post by papapodjov on Apr 27, 2011 2:02:06 GMT 10
It's incredibly hard to generalise in terms of europe... I've lived across England, Scotland and Ireland, as well as having many friends from all over the continent.... I would suggest rurality and urbanism plays more of a part of religious affiliation, or morality.... and even then I'm pained to so generalise.
Ireland was mentioned, and thankfully the not allowing condoms, banning Monty Python, and covering up of everything deviant within the church days, are thankfully past (nearly). In Northern Ireland the biggest party is affiliated directly to Free Presbyterians who believe that creationism should be given equal standing with science in museums, homosexuality is a disease, the Pope is the anti-christ, swings should be chained up on a sunday, drink is the devils vomit.... etc etc amongst other things... No sun here to bake brains, and no liquor either for these men... and i mean men.... not token women politicians to make themselves look slightly 20th century...
Anyway the point i really wanted to make was on how people (generally) see micronationalists. From my own experience I would say that the English would be more laid back... open to eccentricity and fun. In N.Ireland quite another story.
To even be non supporting of the monarchy in a protestant area you'd be deemed a traitor, or at worst an Irish Republican trying to cajole them into a united ireland through some clever rouse! So be quiet... In a republican area you'd just be seen as a drunk who should be quiet... and if you shouted to loud would be told to be quiet in no uncertain terms... best to be quiet.
Overall however most people wouldn't and don't care until they are challenged to care.... and those who seek to be offended will be offended... The most basic and simple example I can give is from my own experience growing up in Belfast in the 80's and following football/soccer. EVERYONE who follows soccer in Ireland supports Glasgow Celtic if you're a catholic, or Glasgow Rangers if you're a protestant.... I support Aberdeen. At school i was kicked up and down for being a wannabe catholic.... 'If you're not one of us.... you must be one of them' is the prevailing attitude politically/culturally... The sort of 'Muslims and Lefties all in it together' mentality....
I guess that's why I've never heard of any other NI micronationalists... Fighting for British or Irish Rule automatically places people in boxes... defined by their religion, culture, politics, ethnicity.... there is no third way! The third way would be the enemies way... Things are changing though... Eastern Europeans diluting the gene pool along with people from Britain... Maybe more will pop-up as people see more than the end of their street...
Sorry I've rambled on.... hope it made sense.... and apols to any creationists!
Comrade General Simon
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 27, 2011 23:52:14 GMT 10
It's incredibly hard to generalise in terms of europe... I've lived across England, Scotland and Ireland, as well as having many friends from all over the continent.... I would suggest rurality and urbanism plays more of a part of religious affiliation, or morality.... and even then I'm pained to so generalise. Ireland was mentioned, and thankfully the not allowing condoms, banning Monty Python, and covering up of everything deviant within the church days, are thankfully past (nearly). In Northern Ireland the biggest party is affiliated directly to Free Presbyterians who believe that creationism should be given equal standing with science in museums, homosexuality is a disease, the Pope is the anti-christ, swings should be chained up on a sunday, drink is the devils vomit.... etc etc amongst other things... No sun here to bake brains, and no liquor either for these men... and i mean men.... not token women politicians to make themselves look slightly 20th century... Anyway the point i really wanted to make was on how people (generally) see micronationalists. From my own experience I would say that the English would be more laid back... open to eccentricity and fun. In N.Ireland quite another story. To even be non supporting of the monarchy in a protestant area you'd be deemed a traitor, or at worst an Irish Republican trying to cajole them into a united ireland through some clever rouse! So be quiet... In a republican area you'd just be seen as a drunk who should be quiet... and if you shouted to loud would be told to be quiet in no uncertain terms... best to be quiet. Overall however most people wouldn't and don't care until they are challenged to care.... and those who seek to be offended will be offended... The most basic and simple example I can give is from my own experience growing up in Belfast in the 80's and following football/soccer. EVERYONE who follows soccer in Ireland supports Glasgow Celtic if you're a catholic, or Glasgow Rangers if you're a protestant.... I support Aberdeen. At school i was kicked up and down for being a wannabe catholic.... 'If you're not one of us.... you must be one of them' is the prevailing attitude politically/culturally... The sort of 'Muslims and Lefties all in it together' mentality.... I guess that's why I've never heard of any other NI micronationalists... Fighting for British or Irish Rule automatically places people in boxes... defined by their religion, culture, politics, ethnicity.... there is no third way! The third way would be the enemies way... Things are changing though... Eastern Europeans diluting the gene pool along with people from Britain... Maybe more will pop-up as people see more than the end of their street... Sorry I've rambled on.... hope it made sense.... and apols to any creationists! Comrade General Simon Thank you for the very interesting response, especially since you hit upon the areas of Europe that are so near and dear to me personally, and will be to Zandrovia as well (official announcement pending ) The story that you told regarding the soccer division reminds me of an anecdote/joke I came across when I was researching Jewish Ireland my senior year of college. The story goes something like this...A Jewish man was walking home from Synagogue one Shabbat, when he was stopped and pulled into an ally by a rather aggressive Irishman who asked "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?" to which he simply replied "I am a Jew." The man thought for a moment and then looked at him and said "Ah, yes, but are you a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew?" It reminds me very much of what you said, the idea that there is no 3rd way. Which is actually an interesting stage for us because we are neither, religiously speaking, we are heavily influenced by the Celtic Church but are neither Catholic or Protestant believing more in the monastic style of The Church, but rejecting the authority of the Pope (and the doctrine of the Trinity, easter, etc.) we are accustomed to being on the outside of every situation, lol. Politically speaking, the US tends to be the same way but they are divided between right and left, instead of the Catholic/Protestant debate, with no comprehension of a 3rd way, and again I am neither. I am too liberal for the right and too conservative for the left, which results in tons of hate mail from everyone From what I have seen and heard, I think that the Isles and Australia certainly seem to be much friendlier ground for micronationalists than other parts of the world. I am curious as to what the technical legal issues are regarding micronations and religious/intentional communities for the respective nations. The US is much like you described the mindset of Northern Ireland, any criticism of the nation is considered a direct assault as if by simply ignoring the many (many many many many) flaws and problems of the country it will just somehow, magically make it the demigod they seem to think it is. Most people can not even fathom the idea of anyone wanting to be anything else but an American although there are a handful of people who have had enough and are marching steadily and quite happily towards the status of expatriate. And now I am the one who is rambling on.....
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 28, 2011 0:04:54 GMT 10
I suppose you have a few points, although why such is even legal in the first place is something that I will never comprehend, especially given the enormous amount of harm that it causes. Ireland use to have a much better reign on keeping out things that were indecent and offensive. For us, chastity and purity are inseparable from honor. In Japan the Burakumin are considered filthy/dirty by the majority, not because they have more illicit sex than everyone else, or because they are of a different race/ethnicity than the average Japanese, but because they were involved — not as individuals necessarily, but as a group in general — in professions that were considered foul by Shinto, and later Buddhist standards. Because of societal pressures, the Burakumin were often employed as butchers, leather workers, grave-diggers, tanners, executioners and, at least in some cases, entertainers. Anyone who engaged in activities such as these, or people with special mystical powers, or linked to magicians or shamans, was by definition impure and to be avoided. The Puritans had similar attitudes towards sex outside of marriage, and other cultures saw menstruating women as impure, to be avoided. While public decency/sobriety doesn't certainly hurt, as well as good manners at the table or within polite society in general, a lot of these purity rules remind me more of unwarranted social engineering, discrimination, and the Indian caste system, rather than anything genuinely pure, beautiful, or particularly redeeming. Now governments tell us that expensive and pseudo-scientific physicians practicing polluting, artificial, and non-holistic forms of health care are desirable, not affordable and naturopathic practitioners practicing biological, natural, and holistic forms of health care. The first kind of professional is given a government licence, and a quasi-monopoly over health care. The second is not given even the right to practice under common market-driven needs/rules, which generally allow any beneficial service the public is willing to pay for which is not destructive to life, liberty, and property, services which generally include even the legal provision of unsecured debt at annual interest rates of 30% and higher — somehow, even the latter, not just unproven surgical techniques, is not destructive to life, liberty, or even property... As far as other issues, I think we are clearly seeing the US fall behind in nearly every area, certainly in education, the approach to medical “care”, reigning in monsanto, and sustainability. The US's steady march towards civil war is not exactly a plus for them either. They, as a society, tend to be very close minded when it comes to innovation or alternative ways of living and designing communities that are not based on the same 300 year old model that has failed so many times. They remind me so much of those self-righteous Christians who claim the Bible is the (only) word of God, but somehow they can't explain why God was unable to give the value of Pi beyond a single digit, while a perfect God, and/or a perfect secretary of God, would have been able to give the value of Pi to at least two digits very easily in the biblical narrative, if God — and/or a few good prophets — was the actual author of the entire Bible, and not largely a bunch of demonically-influenced sycophants. Given that we are a religious nation who holds to the infallibility of God's word, I will shall not comment further on those portions of your post. As far as the health care issue, I certainly agree that the medical industry (and in the US it is indeed an industry) is more often than not causing more harm than good and of course all in the name of profit. Zandrovia believes very strongly in natural and holistic approaches to healthy living. Unfortunately what is often termed as "alternative medicine" is generally looked down on, heavily criticized, and dismissed by most of the medical community in the US and is seen as little more than "mumbo jumbo" which deprives so many people from the benefits they could have otherwise. As people become more educated on these topics and the dangers of conventional medicine, that is hopefully, slowly, changing.
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Post by rareearth on Apr 28, 2011 9:01:50 GMT 10
They remind me so much of those self-righteous Christians who claim the Bible is the (only) word of God, but somehow they can't explain why God was unable to give the value of Pi beyond a single digit, while a perfect God, and/or a perfect secretary of God, would have been able to give the value of Pi to at least two digits very easily in the biblical narrative, if God — and/or a few good prophets — was the actual author of the entire Bible, and not largely a bunch of demonically-influenced sycophants. You may be interested in reading some commentary by Abarim Publications. www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/index.html. Then again he might just come off as a demonically-influenced sycophant since he doesn't agree with you. But he definitely wrinkled my brain a bit. Monarch of Dagostinia The problem with Abarim Publications' explanation for the value of Pi in the Bible... www.abarim-publications.com/Bible_Commentary/Pi_In_The_Bible.html...is that it resorts to the Jewish Kabbalah, it resorts, in other words to Jewish hermeticism, to extract an approximate value of "the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle", a value popularly known as 'Pi'. The problem with that is that Pi, or its value, should be no mystery, unless your general purpose is to deceive about basic facts concerning the real world. I believe the proper role of religion or theology should be to enlighten, not to deceive. Abarim Publications' says that the number 3 in 1 Kings 7:23, a value repeated again in 2 Chronicles 4:2, by the way, was only for 'dummies'. The way I see things, had the Bible verse stated that a line of 31 cubits circled it, then I would have never doubted the source of that knowledge: God Almighty. Any moron could have repeated God's words whether it was 30 or 31, if he were actually listening to God, instead of making things up. Another phrase to describe that is "man's words", not God's, "tradition", not Revelation. I think Yeshua Ha-Notzri (aka Jesus of Nazareth) also complained about these issues in his time. My book... www.amazon.com/All-Religions-Are-Cults-Priests/dp/1449553559...which doesn't call itself the "Word of God", plainly shows the sequence of Pi's digits up to 72 places; shows a good way to estimate the value of Pi to 8, 10, 12, and 14 digits through simple division; and shows three different ways to estimate the value of Pi to 31 digits. My book, which is not the "Word of God", also shows a Calculus of Everything which the Bible doesn't show, and which would leave quite a few good scientists or mathematicians stunned if they read about it. Perhaps some clever people might actually understand that the real author of the book above isn't really Cesidio Tallini, a poor secretary of God's Word, but God himself, because my book even explains the lower sephirot in Kabbalah, and resorting to no kind of hocus-pocus rationale.
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 28, 2011 13:12:07 GMT 10
James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
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Post by sogoln on Apr 28, 2011 17:02:34 GMT 10
You really have a lot of spare time...
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Dagostinia
Full Member
Monarchy of Dagostinia
Posts: 114
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Post by Dagostinia on Apr 29, 2011 1:42:46 GMT 10
Abarim does NOT say 3 was the number for dummies, it posits that as one argument. At the bottom of the page there is a link to another page that explains a bit more. Seems you may have missed it. What Abarim is saying is that it doesn't really matter. If you look at an analog clock and the minutes hand is at 173 degrees (0 being straight up), will you say that the time is "exactly 6:28:50" or will you be a little less obtuse and simply state that it is 6:30? This is called theory vs. practice. Theory is precise. Practical means your friends still hang around. Does it matter whether the Sea was 30 or 31 cubits around? If it does, you are being pedantic and looking for any excuse to discredit something you already saw as unimportant. And if you saw it as unimportant, why are you debating it?
Even if it is human error, so what? As legal documents here in the States say, "If any part of this agreement shall be found to be in error, it shall not nullify or void the rest of this agreement." Or something to that context.
What that means is that I am not going to let the minor point of mathematical rounding keep me from following the example of Yeshua Ha'Natsri in his love for all people, especially the poor and outcast.
Don't forget either that the Bible is merely a collection of what would otherwise be somewhere around 60 books, exact number depending on whether you are 'Merican or Hebrew. Given that logic, one would have to find definite error in all books separately to discredit the entire collection.
The other grave error is treating the Bible like a book on religion. If it's religion, you're doing it wrong.
[The views given herein are the views of the Monarch himself and should not be construed to represent the views of the entirety of Dagostinia, lest you discount the entirety of the micronation because of one minor misspelling]
Monarch of Dagostinia
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Post by rareearth on Apr 29, 2011 1:44:49 GMT 10
James 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. James 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. 1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; Yes, the fruit of peace and kindness is righteousness. Yeshua said that we would know them by their fruits, and unfortunately the fruits of religious people today don't show that they started on a humble foundation. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 says, "Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person's work has any value. If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames." A builder/lover of truth today most often starts with scripture (or sacred texts) to build a foundation of religious truth, but as my book shows, he may also start with other 'materials', such as... - (religious) tradition
- reason (and science)
- the words of the prophets
- personal (religious) experience
- orthodox syncretism (in rare cases)
A builder/lover of truth today may even start, in extremely rare cases, with mathematics to build a foundation of religious truth. However, the fruit of peace and kindness is righteousness, and the ultimate test of righteousness is the work shall even survive Judgement Day (or Yom HaDin for the Jews, Yawm Ad-Din for the Muslims). So yes, you shall know them by their fruits, and even greater than John the Baptist are those whose works shall survive Judgement Day.
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Post by rareearth on Apr 29, 2011 2:25:55 GMT 10
Does it matter whether the Sea was 30 or 31 cubits around? It does matter if your goal is truth, which is inclusive of mathematical truth. Even if it is human error, so what? As legal documents here in the States say, "If any part of this agreement shall be found to be in error, it shall not nullify or void the rest of this agreement." Or something to that context. Your views suggest that the solution to religious or theological problems is in legalism. Yeshua, on the other hand, proposed that that kind of solution leads to (unsustainable) burdens, and Yeshua also emphasised this philosophy when he stated his yoke was light. Legalism is also problematic as a source of religious truth because it is always used to push authoritarian religion, not authoritative religion, and there is a difference between the two. The first kind of religion comes from man, who has an ego, while the second comes from God, who almost doesn't have an ego at all. The first kind of religion degenerates into religious extremism and legalised irrationality. The second kind of religion actually assists the further development of the social sciences.
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Post by Zandrovia on Apr 29, 2011 2:26:42 GMT 10
You clearly missed the point, and as such, there is nothing more that I can say on this topic.
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Post by rareearth on Apr 29, 2011 3:04:56 GMT 10
You clearly missed the point, and as such, there is nothing more that I can say on this topic. Perhaps you are right; perhaps I may be missing some detail or two. I certainly don't know everything, and I'm also self-conscious and uneasy that even my understanding of Analytic Theology is still quite rudimentary, despite its great potential as a tool. However, it may also be true that you are noticing the speck in my eye, but not the log that is in your own. When "The Law" leads men to stone a woman to death because she may be an adulteress, and yet it takes two to commit adultery, and the male adulterer is never (conveniently) judged, I tend to think that God may still not be wrong, but the laws of men taken as divine laws may be. So I'm sorry if I'm so indulgent towards The Almighty, and so fussy towards mere men.
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