George
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 8:48:51 GMT 10
I've just spent a bit of time tidying up some of the subject headers in the forum, as it was starting to look a bit messy. I'd like to request that in future people not use ALL CAPS in subject headers, as I'd like to reserve those for important forum announcements. I'd also ask people to moderate their use of punctuation in subject headers. One interrogation mark ( ?) or exclamation mark ( ! ) does the same job as 2 or 3 of them - and it keeps the forum looking tidy and easy for readers to navigate. Many thanks.
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 9:18:03 GMT 10
George..... ? I can understand *some* of your concerns; however, I can't see that anyone has gone over-board...to the point of making the forum look untidy; and to change titles to a topic ( as you've done to several of mine already ) may make some think that such dictatorial rules lessens one's freedoms of press / speech. ( ?? ) There are times that I think that all caps is appropriate for what I have to present; and I really take offense at you changing ( especially before any notice ) some of my topic titles !! If an extra ?...or an extra !....is such an issue to you....maybe the entire point of the forum has been missed by me....and others What's next......will you change our message, by deleting words and adding words that you prefer... ?? Just a personal point of view....which is grounded in a past forum that attempted to impose such restraints....and ended up gone; which is why I offer a mild protest, on behalf of myself, and several others, as I think that this forum has a good chance of survival....but to do as you have done....well....it goes against my grain...quite a bit. You are the owner....and as such...you can impose your will at will; but don't forget....a "one-man-show" does not a forum make. Regards !! _________
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 10:03:44 GMT 10
Dennis,
My message is a simple request that people adhere to common English punctuation and capitalisation in the subject headings of messages in this forum, for reasons of basic legibility.
It's a matter of respecting others by adhering to common standards - and its neither unusual nor unreasonable an expectation.
...and for the record, none of your topic titles have been changed. They have merely been decapitalised and de-punctuated in accordance with the basic rules of written English that are taught to all primary school children in all English-speaking countries - for good reason.
Your words and meaning have not been changed in any way, and there was nothing secretive or nefarious about it - as the fact that I broadcast my actions in a public message for you and everyone else to read clearly show.
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 10:56:01 GMT 10
Dennis, My message is a simple request that people adhere to common English punctuation and capitalisation in the subject headings of messages in this forum, for reasons of basic legibility. It's a matter of respecting others by adhering to common standards - and its neither unusual nor unreasonable an expectation. ...and for the record, none of your topic titles have been changed. They have merely been decapitalised and de-punctuated in accordance with the basic rules of written English that are taught to all primary school children in all English-speaking countries - for good reason. Your words and meaning have not been changed in any way, and there was nothing secretive or nefarious about it - as the fact that I broadcast my actions in a public message for you and everyone else to read clearly show. George....
you are trying to put words-in-my-mouth....in an attempt to turn this issue around..................
I never said that you had changed the meaning....I merely asked the next most logical question.....as....."what's next ?"[/i] !! ( re-read my exact wording, and anyone will see exactly what I meant )[/b] Also....my point was....that you altered my titles to my topics *BEFORE* even ever presenting your new rule; which could have been "grandfathered" in after-the-fact I suppose, but no one was even given a heads-up !! In the future....I would like to think, that as the owner you would be kind enough to let everyone know exactly what it is that you expect of the membership !! Thanks George !! ______________
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 11:23:44 GMT 10
you are trying to put words-in-my-mouth [...] I never said that you had changed the meaning I have done nothing of the sort. You said: ...to change titles to a topic (as you've done to several of mine already )... I responded: none of your topic titles have been changed. [...] Your words and meaning have not been changed in any way The meaning of both sets of statements is perfectly clear. I appreciate the concerns expressed in your comments, however I really don't see that you have any real justification for making them. In my 42 years on this planet I have never EVER used my authority to censor anyone - and I'm not about to start now. There is no conspiracy, no hidden agenda, and no abuse of authority.
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 11:43:36 GMT 10
You DID change my titles....you altered the CAPs and ?? / !!
I'm not going to get into a *pi$$ing-contest* with you...NOT.... over something as minor as this; as I DID express that I did understand some of your reasoning, but was offended at the manner to which you chose to introduce your new rule.
If you are not man enough / big enough to see that the way in which you altered my titles / topics was too-too abrupt and controlling, then it is you who needs glasses kind Sir....NOT me !!
I can understand and respect one's manner in which he or she wishes to conduct "business"; however, this is not a classroom, you are not a teacher, and I and everyone else are not students !!
In my 59 years on this planet....10+ now on the net....I have never see such "micro-management" that you keep showing; which will eventually turn members off, and potential members away !!
I've never ever seen such "needless-needling" on the part of an Admin or owner; it's as if you were trying to run people away. ( if you want me to go away...just say so )
You've protested my original signature...and now you've gone and altered many of my titles to my messages.....
Maybe you need to "lighten-up"....just a tidbit !??!
Like I stated.....it would be appreciated...if in the future you would / could give everyone a heads-up once in awhile; especially whenever you go about changing anyone's messages.... in any way, shape, or form.
Sometimes I want all CAPs...sometimes I think an extra ?, or an extra ! is in order; which simply put......means it is *MY* message, and *MY* manner in which I would prefer to present it. ( no one will ever alter any of your messages...be just as polite )
If anyone doesn't wish to read my messages...due to too many ?'s or !'s...then they can just skip over it.
Thanks for listening........... _______________________________________________
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 11:59:18 GMT 10
There's a very good reason this forum has gone from nothing to the most popular forum for serious micronational discussion in a period of barely 3 months;
It's because we maintain higher standards of discourse and inter-personal behaviour than any other micronation forum - past or present.
This will not be changing.
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 12:12:21 GMT 10
[/b] than any other micronation forum - past or present.
This will not be changing.[/quote]
I never expressed any such view..............
AND.................
I was NOT concerned about "higher standards of discourse and inter-personal behaviour"; I WAS addressing the *MANNER* in which you handled the introduction of your new rule / policy !! ( i.e. no heads-up...."slash-&-burn" tactics to topic titles )
You have totally avoided directly addressing the concerns of a loyal and dedicated member....me !!
Once again...you are attempting to alter the issue to suit your own wants-and-needs; similar to how "r" use to do at his many now defunct forums / sites.
Which explains a lot...to a lot !! _________________________
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 12:17:45 GMT 10
I am not going to get into a circular discussion with you Dennis.
You are of the opinion that my approach to managing this forum is potentially damaging.
I am of the opinion that my approach is one of the major reasons for the unquestionable success of the forum.
Let's just agree to leave it there, shall we?
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 12:34:34 GMT 10
I am not going to get into a circular discussion with you Dennis. You are of the opinion that my approach to managing this forum is potentially damaging. I am of the opinion that my approach is one of the major reasons for the unquestionable success of the forum. Let's just agree to leave it there, shall we?[/size][/quote] Agreed.....if you will agree to introduce any new rule in advance; which is not asking too much....is it ?
There's a GOOD reason for my challenge ( which you can not, or will not accept ); which is.....NO ONE likes to have his or her message altered in any way, shape, or form....especially..... especially whenever they have not been notified in advance of any new rule; and especially when such an altering of one's message was not of any major need....i.e....no vularity, no porn pix, etc, etc ....it was only a few CAPs and an extra ? or !...too-too "micro-managed" !! ( i.e. please do not automatically "grandfather" any new rule into the system; as any old post that doesn't meet with your approval, will eventually turn the page and be lost to the archives...you win eventually )
What you are introducing into an *informal* debate & discussion forum is a form of censorship; as everyone has to bow to your wishes and whims, but has to do so after-the-fact !! ( remember the "r" factor !! )
I do not stand alone on this issue...as I have already received 5 emails from other members who agree with my point-of-view; and also understand ( as I do too ) the need for *some* of your reasonings.
No one wants to fight you on the manner to which you, as the forum owner, wishes to present the forum to the world; merely need a heads-up now-and-then of any new rules...especially rules that restrict one's capacity to present his or her own manner of a topic; which rules ( too many rules ) more times than not, tend to turn posting members into viewing members / guest.________________________________________________
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 12:58:58 GMT 10
[Agreed.....if you will agree to introduce any new rule in advance; which is not asking too much....is it ? To be frank, I considered this matter to be such a minor aesthetic change as not to be worth bothering anyone about in advance. If I had suspected just how upset you would become, I would not have implemented the change without first discussing it with you. I will ensure I do so in future. A further point: no messages in this forum have been, or are ever going to be, "lost". Firstly, no non-abusive message here is ever going to be deleted or taken offline. This is an important point to bear in mind when posting messages - they are all still going to be here in 10 or 20 years. Secondly, this forum will not be "disappearing" as so many have before. I have been personally managing close to a dozen websites and forums for various organisations for well over a decade, and none of them have ever gone offline or vanished. This forum is an important micronational resource, and it will be no exception in that regard.
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 13:28:19 GMT 10
[Agreed.....if you will agree to introduce any new rule in advance; which is not asking too much....is it ? To be frank, I considered this matter to be such a minor aesthetic change as not to be worth bothering anyone about in advance. If I had suspected just how upset you would become, I would not have implemented the change without first discussing it with you. I will ensure I do so in future. A further point: no messages in this forum have been, or are ever going to be, "lost".[/size] Firstly, no non-abusive message here is ever going to be deleted or taken offline. This is an important point to bear in mind when posting messages - they are all still going to be here in 10 or 20 years, whether the poster likes it or not.[/size] Secondly, this forum will not be "disappearing" as so many have before. I have been personally managing close to a dozen websites and forums for various organisations for well over a decade, and none of them have ever gone offline or vanished. This forum is an important micronational resource, and it will be no exception in that regard. [/quote] ?? The word "lost" was used as a manner of speaking; bascially saying: that any message that doesn't meet with your approval will soon be "lost" to page 2, then page 3, then page 4 ...etc...etc...etc...as newer topics take "front-and-center". ( i.e......hence the "you win" aspect of my reply )? I believe ( ? ) you *might* have mistook my meaning here.... as I was saying that your "micro-management" of my topic titles was over-the-top, as my titles only had a few extra ?'s and a few extra !'s; but NOT any vulgarity or porn pix.....which...if that had been the case....as an Admin and/or owner...one would certainly be well within his or her rights to alter any such message / title. ( but for a few extra ?'s & !'s....it shouldn't have made any matter...really )Regardless of how you view my points on this issue, I really do want you to succeed with the LOM forum; if such were not the case, I wouldn't have raised the level of concern as I did; as others were becoming just as concerned as was I...to the manner in which you chose to alter my ( and possibly others ) titles to my topics that I had offered for debate and discussion. ( i.e. a few extra ?'s and !'s now-and-then will not alter any good subject )
And if a few extra ?'s & !'s offends anyone's good taste...then he or she can avoid such a topic; which, any such an allowance really should be left up to each and every member....sort of as a "right". ( mature members are able to address any such minor manner of presentation of a topic / title...really no rule needed...not on such an issue )
Thanks for understanding.____________________________________________________
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 14:36:05 GMT 10
George.....
Do you want to post the *other*...or want me to do the honors ?? ( or let it die ?? )
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 15:02:57 GMT 10
As per your request / suggestion George..... _________________________________________
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 15:10:19 GMT 10
You forgot to add my response:
...I tried.
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 15:23:04 GMT 10
George......
I explained several ways in which *one* were able to transfer a message multiple times...to another...to another....
It only takes *ONE* ( 1 )....and a computer.........
OR.......
It only takes me to send an email expressing the issue, or copying some of the post and emailing them to several; and asking each for his or her opinions !! ____________________________________________
Is it that hard for you to comprehend such an easy method of conducting a private communication; which is only needed when a person believes that such a way is the only way in which one can safely communicate with another member ??
I have no need or desire to conduct a tit-for-tat with you; on this issue, or any other issue for that matter !!
But when *YOU* "opened-this-can-of-worms"....by altering my titles, and was so arrogant about the manner in which you did so.....this is what *pi$$ed* me off.
You are being compared to "r" by several members who contact me on a daily basis; which I have no indepth knowledge of how they compare you to him, as I was turned-off by him from the first time I read his ways....but some seem to be rather reserved in their presenting any of their view-points....out of fear of you throwing some sort of a temper tantrum.
Regards. _________
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 15:31:36 GMT 10
To Add To..... You brag about your forum being the #1 micro-forum; but take a look at the number of members who actually post anything.....and for the most part.....only a handful do the majority of the posting....everyone else is only viewing. ( I hope that it is #1 someday ) For this forum, or any forum for that matter, to be called a "success story" ( especially so early ) one needs to define the word "success"; as it could mean: number of members, or it could mean number of post, or it could mean.... I've told you several times ( in private and public ) that I wish this forum much sucess, and will help all that I can; but it is you who seems to be so determined to disrupt the calm and collective tone of the forum. Regards -----------
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 15:35:08 GMT 10
Dennis,
With all due respect, your comments are starting to veer into the realms of paranoid delusion.
There is no evidence of any wide-scale dissatisfaction among forum members, and your arguments to that effect are disingenuous and lack credibility.
Furthermore, suggestions that people have, are or may be "targeted" by me (how, exactly?) for expressing their opinions are both ludicrous and offensive.
I have attempted to respond in a respectful and even-handed manner to your comments, observations and accusations in this thread, but I don't see much point in continuing the discussion if you intend to continue along your present negative trajectory.
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 15:49:30 GMT 10
You brag about your forum being the #1 micro-forum; I do not "brag" about anything; I don't need to. As I have stated repeadly, LOM is the foremost forum for serious micronational discussion. That is a simple fact of reality which can easily be confirmed by visiting any of the other micronational forums and comparing the standards of discourse. take a look at the number of members who actually post anything.....and for the most part.....only a handful do the majority of the posting....everyone else is only viewing. It is a rule of thumb in business, social intercourse and in life that 20% of people do 80% of the heavy lifting in any situation. As a business owner you should be well aware of this. LOM is no different. ...it is you who seems to be so determined to disrupt the calm and collective tone of the forum. I'm not going to bother dignifying that truly bizarre assertion with a response, as I do not wish to "disrupt the calm and collective tone of the forum".
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 15:59:41 GMT 10
[/size], and your arguments to that effect are disingenuous and lack credibility.
Furthermore, suggestions that people have, are or may be "targeted" by me (how, exactly?) for expressing their opinions are both ludicrous and offensive.[/size]
I have attempted to respond in a respectful and even-handed manner to your comments, observations and accusations in this thread, but I don't see much point in continuing the discussion if you intend to continue along your present negative trajectory.[/quote]
Once again George....
You attempt to distance yourself from the *real* concerns surrounding this issue; by pointing your finger at me, and suggesting me ( my comments ) to be "paranoid / delusion".
I never stated that there was..."wide-scale dissatisfaction among forum members"....merely mentioned that there were a "few", and some *could* be "closer" than you think...or want. ( it was a friendly warning....I could care less if you believe )
It is not I that have any fear from you "targeting" me; it is those who I mentioned to you...in public and private. ( the silent "minority"....i.e....only a "few" ) --------------------------------------------------------
NOW.....Back to my original reply to your original topic.......
Unless or until any member breaches normal communication practices, a members' topic and/or title should remain his or hers; to do otherwise, the forum and its membership are not served well, whenever someone alters any other members' topics or titles...as you did today to several of mine !!
Such senseless censorship...and dictatorial authority....from an Admin / owner serves no one; and you refuse to accept the fact that you breached my basic base-membership rights of speech / press, or admit to even really caring. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
We both are guilty of taking this topic way-way off of topic; as the tit-for-tat that I stated I was against several times, has now taken on a life of its own.
Regards -----------
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Post by commiczar on Jun 13, 2009 16:14:42 GMT 10
[/size][/quote]
George.....
You have never directly addressed the *real* reasons for my ( and others ) concerns; and instead, have avoided the issue, by re-directing "non-issues" into the mess. ( i.e. pointing your Admin finger @ me....degrading my comments, etc.. )
Regards ----------
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 16:20:00 GMT 10
The FULL message, for the public record:
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George
Global Administrator
Head Honcho and Spangle of the Cosmos
Posts: 2,997
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Post by George on Jun 13, 2009 16:21:18 GMT 10
Dennis,
You have spent much of this thread suggesting that there walk among us a shadowy nameless group of disaffected forum members, who, being terrified of expressing their views lest they be "targeted" in some mysterious way by me, spend their days feverishly emailing you (and each other) to bitch about my "temper tantrums".
There is no evidence that any of the above exists or occurs in reality.
Most reasonable people would conclude from this that the story above is nothing more than a paranoid, delusional rant.
I have - and I know I'm not alone in drawing that conclusion.
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